Goldberg and Guthrie

A really revolting discussion has been taking place at The Corner over the last few days about torture. One post compared what was done to detainees to what is done to people training to be Navy Seals. That didn't really make any sense, but OK.

And then, from John Derbyshire, this:

A large, interesting, and quite disturbing subset of the reader e-mails I've been getting on the torture issue consists of accounts of the reader's hazing experience at the hands of a college fraternity. Good grief! I didn't know half this stuff went on.

If you've just been tapped for a college fraternity and are curious to know what you might have to go through by way of initiation, you might want to do a close reading of the Abu Ghraib scandals.

And this:

Torture, fraternity style: "My experience: My future 'brothers' broke eggs on top of my head. They took off my socks and broke eggs into them (not comfortable walking around for hours like that), no jacket in December, blindfolded with a Tampon, forced to hold hands with a fellow pledge in this condition while singing Christmas carols in a public, downtown setting. All through the evening, I was screamed at and my manhood was constantly challenged. Looking back, it was pretty funny."

Mostly I'm putting this here in case it disappears down the Corner memory hole. But I doubt it will - there must actually be a group of people who think Abu Ghraib compares to college hazing. And surely their right - I'm sure many of the people who were there or had family there get together and say "looking back, it was pretty funny" right before they blow themselves and 10 American soldiers up. Again, nice work on letting this happen, Bush administration.


UPDATE: See a more thorough discussion of torture day on The Corner here.